IT services discussion thread.

[Ethan]

Open sourcing the club website and boards using Github so that members can suggest patches etc. it can be done securely it just takes some initial systems being set up. the boards is more of a concern than the website because the website is already using modern technology, yes the boards technology is up to date(as in latest versions of phpBB) but is it using modern technology or modern ui design etc.? Nope.

whether we stay using phpbb is a different question but my suggestion is to open up the club code the club uses for all suitable applications for collaborative development so that it can be improved to suit the clubs own needs/style and and allow member past present and future to give to the club in another way.

It would take some work to put the code in public domain initially but it would be absolutely worth it for the club in the long run.

It is a fact that open source can provide better security that closed source - just look at bitcoin.

I also understand that if we begin customisation it will affect how we integrate updates from stuff we use already such as phpbb but I know this is something we can solve too.

this might not concern the majority of the club but it would certainly benefit the entirety of the club!

[Cathal]

Website already has the capability of more users with rights to add to it, it's just not implemented as there been no need shown for it. PRO has the current access to add to the front page and to edit and add pages, so there would no advantage and plenty of disadvantage to breaking a working system and adding unnecessary complication.

The boards software is already completely open source, and is generally regarded as being as secure as possible for what it is. At least there's a good community working on phpBB to improve the security and usability, and I don't see any compelling reasons to migrate away at this stage.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

[MikeShaw]

The boards is an internal presence the website is an external presence.

The website has been, dated, crap and stale since I joined the club. No committee since 2009 has addressed this. That's a fact, not an insult. Cue abuse for me stating it

We need a more modern, current and active external presence.

• Proposal to rehaul the website
  Request for a zip of all the website and related club code hosted via skynet( ie the entire clubs directory and database export, if one exists)

Ethan if you have the zip you dont need github you can simply install xamp and unzip and work on your machine on improvements. I would be very keen to link up with you and work on a paperless gear signout system using php, mysql, REST and twitter bootstrap

[Cathal]

Andrew,
NUIG do not have the facility locally that Skynet can provide. We don't have forum spam at the moment because I am staying on top of the administration and implementation of the forum software, and being careful with the new members. I've personally got no problem with the public visibility (it'd allow the topic subject to be seen when links are posted to FB pages.

Mike,
The website won't be moving away from Skynet's hosting. There's no good reason to. Nothing in what you have said is compelling to me as a reason to move. If you don't like the look of the website you are free to work with me to improve the look while keeping the underlying engine, as it works well enough for our purposes. If you don't want to do that then that's your prerogative, but we are not going to waste your time by suggesting that there's a possibility that we'll change, as that won't be happening.

Don't forget that over-complicating things rarely works out better - just because there is a technology possibility does not mean that the new is always better - as a rough example see any and all electronic voting, beaten for all of the necessary requirements for voting by the current systems of paper and pen. Adding complexity is very rarely a solution to a problem. If it truly adds simplicity then it'll be worth a look. Building an in-house solution might make a good project but will usually end up unmaintainable once the original project leads move onwards from the projects, even with rigorous documentation,as the will for the project generally falls away.

[Cathal]

Mike, you are not being fair when you say that no committee since 2009 has looked at fixing the website. Either we are looking at different websites or you are being deliberately obtuse.

I've brought it back to Skynet from the offsite unmaintained entity that Seamus started but never got a chance to complete. The previous incarnation of the website was a homegrown CMS that was horribly hard to update and use, and that needed to change. So I made a decision to use a platform that was effective for our needs, supportable on Skynet's servers, and something that can be made to look very effective. I've the back-end working fine, I'm sure Caolann and others have great plans for new and continually updated content, and the skills part that is missing (though I am working with someone on this) is the addition of a custom Wordpress theme to brand the website properly as our own.

Any help with that would be appreciated. Can you help with wordpress theming?

[MikeShaw]

Can you help with wordpress theming?

No,

This is what you are failing to grasp.

We have no front end UX developers. None. We need a better UX a more modern UX. Wordpress will not let you do this easily. Either you do it yourself or you pay a large amount of money for a skin. As doing it ourselves is silly and extremely time consuming with very poor results (You cant become a UX developer overnight). Paying someone to do our UX is not an option as they over charge and are crap.

this took me an evening to do. Using a fully responsive skin with more features I can shake a stick at. It costs me $9.99 a month. I can have full picture and video galleries, blogs, interactive forums, articles you name it. Including SEO all that fluff and 99.9% availability (Skynet is local to UL as far as I know, is that true?)

I have no problem with the forum or any of the internal mechanisms (things members use and see) its good enough for what we need, I would like the zip of everything so I can play around with some ideas about paperless gear sign outs etc.

My BIG concern is the external site. For instance Oisin writes fantastic pieces that could go somewhere for the public to read, my dont they? Cause our PRO doesnt use the site and even if they did, its a bit embarrassing. We have pictures that we could put in a gallery? Why don't we? Because the gallery app is seriously shit.

What I want is something really good looking that on our home page is intuitive, fluid, looks like we are an active club, modern, fun, social feeds displayed.

Its the external presence I want to change and I Will be making a demo to show what it can be like because when people see what we have and what we can switch on tomorrow (yes it would be that quick) I think its a no brainier and I that the committee (it doesnt come down to one person) would vote that way.

[Cathal]

Here's an interesting page from the Wordpress stats for the ULKC webpage. Interesting enough to see where people have accessed us from over the past 3 months.

Worldwide accesses for ULKC for the 90 days previous to March 27th

And here are the visitor page counts since September.

[Cathal]

Mike,

So you are not willing to help in a useful way? That's a pity.

I'm not suggesting that I'm paying for a wordpress theme (I'm not sure where you got that idea - were you thinking of charging the club for any work you were going to help with?), but I'm hopefully getting decently talented people to assist me with what I'm thinking of.

You've still to convince me that anything that you can do is better for the club. Making something that you think looks good is not enough - especially when there's no long term plan associated. If you're willing to get something that does what you want that runs on Skynet - I'd be happy to see how that would work.

If you're unhappy with the gallery app, you're welcome to suggest a substitute that runs on Skynet. To be honest I haven't yet applied a lot of effort into that particular avenue, as most people unfortunately use FB for their personal photos, and Wordpress already allows the upload of pictures. So your argument is a bit moot there.

Local hosting within UL and ideally within C&S is an absolute requirement for me. That's that's both as a longterm member of this club that has seen 6 complete generations of committees, and as a professional administrator with many years of experience in the field. I'll consider any suggestions that run on Skynet's LAMP stack as alternatives to the current Wordpress incarnation, but if it doesn't run on Skynet, then it's not up for consideration.

[Ethan]

Cathal please stop saying that nothing can be done without your approval and that you must be convinced in order to get anything done. In your role you are meant to be a facilitator to the wishes of the club. I am not arguing with you I'm just asking that you get off your high horse a bit (even if it is provoked). You are making some fair points but it can be hard to hear past all the

if it doesn't run on Skynet, then it's not up for consideration

bollox. and also

So you are not willing to help in a useful way? That's a pity

try not sounding so patronizing and you'd do yourself a big favour.

[Cathal]

Ethan,
If you have helpful suggestions, please feel free to make them, and that'll help matters instead of being uselessly critical. I could use some honest help with things sometimes.

As for my stance on hosting in Skynet being a black/white decision, I'm well able to justify that, and that's a decision within my remit as webmin to pursue as I see fit.

If you aren't happy with the job I'm doing, take it to committee.

[MikeShaw]

So I made this video last weekend explaining how squarespace would work.

It appears it didn't come up at the committee meeting (A huge agenda I suspect)

I am posting it here for 2 reasons:

a) Open transparent discussion
b) Some people have personal websites that they might be interested in the technology. You can get a 50% discount on a subscription as a UL student(making it $5 a month for a year). Very useful for online portfolios etc. I use it for my photography webpage and its the shizzle

Id appreciate if it stays here and doesn't get moved/deleted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_nlJoKlWSI

[LukeKelly]

Hey mike that website was shown to the whole committee, and the link is on the committee forum. Just letting you know that you were not ignored.

[MikeShaw]

Cool,

Well the website itself will disappear soon (its a demo) but the video I thought id do to show people how it works internally as its pretty cool as just about anyone can make a website!

If you ever need one for yourself, college, family etc

[Cathal]

As per Ethan's suggestion, I took a look at the Genesis addon for Wordpress. Looks pretty capable, but it's a for-cost option of $60, and $1000 to have unlimited access to all of the themes active there. Might be an option for a personal site, but I don't see the need for it here. That's one I'll add to a committee meeting to see if we want to pay for that. At least it will easily integrate with the current Wordpress installation, so I'm happy from that perspective.

Given that it was decided to stay with the hosting and services provided by Skynet, any ideas or improvements that will work with a typical LAMP stack, ideally integrating with the current phpBB and Wordpress installations are certainly welcome. If you want something added to our site, let me know and I'll try to help as best I can.

If anyone sees a prettier/more useful theme than the "Mantra" theme currently in use, let me know as well and I'll test it out, and see if Caoilinn likes it as well - me to see if it works, and Caoilinn to see if it fits with her PRO plans. Personally, I think that we can do a lot with the current setup once we get content up and on the site.

@Ethan: I've started a github account "ulkayak" that I am in the process of syncing the files used on the current website. It's going to be the installation archives at the moment, but I should be putting up the unzipped to make each file individually accessible.

For our own benefit for future-proofing our Wordpress installation and for ease of keeping it up to date for security, I'd recommend that any changes to the standard installation be made compatible with the Wordpress plugin architecture.
For any changes that people wish to see made to the forum (once I get that git synced), it should be compatible with the MOD packaging format that phpBB uses. This is simply to make it easier to install and uninstall, and should make it easier to allow keeping up to date with any security updates from the upstream provider.

If anyone identifies a specific issue with the current site, please let myself and Caoilinn know - starting a new thread on here is probably the best idea (unless it's a security risk then PM both of us), and we'll work to get it resolved as well as we can

[MikeShaw]

I disagree strongly with the proposed solution.

I get the sense that there is no point in arguing as all decisions have already been made and the subject is not up for debate or reason.

Good luck with the proposed solution